I read about AmericanPhotojournalist in PopPhoto back around June. I didn't join at that time, because I was in the middle of purchasing a house and moving etc...
As I've recently left a staff position to go full-time freelance, I've been checking out a number of portfolio and online community sites, among them Americanphotojournalist.
I am asking this in sincerity, because I think the concept behind this site is a good one, I am just uncertain as to the execution and participation.
The forum participation is completely lacking. There was a question asked about what gear does it take to be a photojournalist, and there has been only one response in the past week (at the least.) Sure, for many of us, this is a basic question, but I think there could have been some participation; both in terms of gear, and also in terms of personality and emotional characteristics (not to mention a good selection of CDs in your car stereo for all the time spent sitting in traffic en route to photo assignments...) Many other forum topics have no or very few replies, which is a disappointment to see when considering joining an 'online community' especially one where there is a membership fee.
About that membership fee...I know $20 is not a lot of money, but what does that get me? 12 photos buried in an alphabetical list, unless I upload a different photo every day to bump myself up to one of the 3 spots on the front page.
Are members getting work from AmericanPhotojournalist? I've asked a few members, and they haven't seen an increase or a referal from here...This may not be the norm, but again, with my name buried way down an alphabetical list, it seems like it's a needle in a haystack sort of thing...
I know there's that "Black Book" concept, but how is that much different than owning a copy of the current Photographer's market or calling a would-be client photo editor directly?
I've seen Photo Story of the Week entries without any feedback whatsoever...Another disappointment. And there's not even a current Photo story of the week right now? Ouch!
Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps it is just a slow time here on the site; but if I don't see otherwise in the next few weeks, I doubt I'll be joining up as a 'paid member.'
One good thing is you can write anonymously and say what you really think.
The Rank It gallery needs to die, or take off the numerical rating and just give feedback. I probably wouldn't put it on the front homepage either as I don't think any of it is edited and not the most flattering stuff to have on the sites homepage. Archiving it is useless too.
Never understood what the black book is for.
Picture story of the week should really be reduced in frequency and they should really be seeking them out instead of expecting photographers to size everything, caption in under 20 words, and email it all as a potential submission. Go with photo story/essay of the month or something.
The 'latest news' is old and poorly maintaned. Not very hard to mine other sites for news: PDN, NPPA, ASMP, robgalbraith.com, etc. Would love to hear how Nachtwey is doing, what's going on at the PMA, did you know that photo mechanic is finally coming out with 4.0.1 for Mac?
I truely believe that main problem is membership. I think American Photojournalist should be for photojournalists, and it's not. Its for people who have $20 and want to post pictures. A lot of the discussions are basic things that most photojournalists have already hashed out. I would even venture to say a majority of the members are not working newspaper/magazine photojournalists. When I come here, I expect to post my questions to photojournalists. Instead, I post my questions to people who have $20 and want to post some pictures.
Because the leadership and many of the members are Navy/military photographers, and whether they like it or not, there is an 'in crowd'.
I would say if you truely want to have meaningful discussions get more bang for your buck, go with sportsshooter (even though I hate sports) and put a listing on PDN's photo source. You can search the portfolios by name, place etc. and sportsshooter offers those hidden galleries that allow for stories, etc.
Just what I like, a frank and candid question that deserves a candid answer.
American Photojournalist is a great idea and some of the resources are very useful. But it does need some help in terms of effective marketing and appropriate membership (in agreement with the first response). The forum post about equipment may not have seen many responses because I seem to recall that the poster asked to be contacted directly by email, not via the forum, which I did, offering lengthy guidance on what equipment should be considered and why.
The news area is lacking and could be much more useful - how about world news, potential stories, links to press releases, press offices, press credentialing etc. There are many RSS feeds available that could fairly easily be incorporated. How about columns submitted by members, sharing experiences etc. How about a pool of referral work - there are many times when I have to turn down conflicting assignments because I cannot be in two places at the same time - I'd love to be able to pass on some of this work to well qualified individuals whom I feel confident about referring.
Many of those I have communicated with compare APJ with www.sportsshooter.com. Sportsshooter offers an interesting benchmark for APJ in terms of membership, stature, services, and overall interaction. The community there is much more active.
I have found on-going confusion about what defines a photojournalist - is a PJ a news photographer, a documentary photographer, a sports photographer? All three? None of the above? There are different needs for each of these categories which may be one reason why APJ has a somewhat vague members list while sportsshooter is much better defined (sports sports sports).
I don't care for the rank it thing - seems amateurish. Would like to see direct links to all the competitions coming up this year, a major event calendar, links to recommended books (perhaps with an affiliation to Amazon.Com), new markets, updated contact info for photo editors of the top 500 publications etc etc.
Finally, I find the list of members a little clumsy to navigate but pretty useful when looking for photographers to take on work in areas that I cannot be in. Also in developing my own feature-specific agency, I am able to get an initial impression of a photographer's work by looking at their APJ postings then sending an invitation to join if appropriate.
Bottom line - at present the $20 is not worth it but I am willing to keep on investing in APJ with the hope that the members will be heard and the site will evolve.
Although sportsshooter does have newsshooter.com registered, I think americanphotojournalist can carve a niche for itself.
The black book could be used for agency addresses/contact info, email addresses to transmit photos to wire services in the event you have something but don't know what to do with it, etc.
As the NPPA is slipping, americanphotojournalist may want to look into how it can fill that void and start pulling people over. (job bank for members?)
A student discount, if it doesn't already exist, might be good to draw in some people.
I have to agree with some of the details listed above. When I first joined up I figured APJ was for photojournalist. During my first month of being on the site, I had posted a minor complaint about amateur wedding photographers and people posting pics of their kids for grandparents to view and was slammed for discrimintating against photographers who are just beginning in documenting the world. I dropped the issue and continued to use the site as a way to keep colleagues updated to what I was doing day-to-day.
I've known a few people who have left APJ to go to SportsShooter because of the respect, involvement and lack of "kiddie" pictures and wedding shots.
The monthly clip contest on SportsShooter is superior to APJ's Rank It because it is truly rated by participants who know what to look for. Mediocre portrait shots aren't rated high, while peak action news or sports shots composed well that tells the story fall in the crap zone.
This could be a great resource if we had more involvement and maybe some support from the people on the site. Watson, Houlihan, Wynn and Benson can't do it all.
So we can do one of two things. Accept this site for what it is and use it for its full potential while not expecting more. Or, truly feel out what each of us want and come up with solutions and put in the time to fix it. It's a stand up or shut up mentality.
So there you go. My 2�.
Romer
James Prichard raises an excellent point about the NPPA. I really have not seen huge value from my NPPA membership which is also open to abuse by amateur photogs who want some sort of professional affiliation in order to access special events (I've come across them several times in the past year) - kinda makes me wonder who the target audience is. Not as bad as IFPO but the comparison is there.
APJ could definitely offer an environment for frustrated NPPA members to channel and develop their skills, business, and network.
I have noticed a major decline in the activity on this site and it sucks. Im not sure exactly why but I will be the first to agree that not everyone with a camera and twenty dollars should be allowed membership to the site. Sure their money is as green as anyones and memberships pay the bills but at what cost? I cant stand clicking on a new members icon and up pops 4 horrible images. I think there really needs to be a membership criteria established. I know that this will piss off the brand new shooters trying to get a start in photography, well I have a news flash for them photography isnt the kindest field to newcomers. I have been shooting for 14 years now and only in the past 5 or so years have I been given the respect I feel I deserve. Photography is all about paying your proverbial dues. Unfortunantly that typically takes a few years. Learn your craft by stringing for local papers and get feedback from photographers before you post your images on a site for the whole world to see. If you put up garbage imagery thats all we will know of you. Trust me thats not something you want your name attached to! I know me as well as any other shooter i know are always more than happy to assist a young up comer but this site really shouldnt be the place. I think this site could learn a lot from sportsshooter.com I swear i cant go an hour without checking the site out. We need more activity from established photographers whose opinions really matter. Thats my 2 cents!
I think that American photojournalist is a great site for students wanting to get into photojournalism. As a high school student, I love checking out the portfolios to learn from other great photographers. However, my portfolio has been posted for about six months now and i have not received any feedback when I ask others for it. I thought that joining this site, I would get the opportunity to have other experienced photographers give me insight on my photos.
As a professional photojournalist I recently joined APJ with a view to learning more about the industry and USA marketplace; exchanging views and news on the forums; and for the exposure that the online portfolio provides.
But IMO the site needs more focus. APJ must determine who its audience is and aim to provide the right content.
If APJ want's to appeal to a wide audience than I'm afraid one-size does not fit all!
A more useful approach would be to segment content for professional and amateur /student photographers. This goes for online portfolios and the forums too.
Pros could get the essential industry news and views and students and amateurs the advice they need to develop.
This is a win-win approach.
I think this would stimulate more intelligent submissions and threads on all sides and still provide amateurs an opportunity of receiving advice from pros visiting the amateur section and forum (eg PDN online is excellent at this). Personally speaking I'm happy to offer advice
I'll continue with membership because it is only 20 bucks. But I'm not sure that the fee alone is the problem (altho' I agree anyone with $20 will join).
The key differentiator is content. Used correctly and with the audience in mind this could become a great site for both users and providers
How about some feedback on this from the owners? Your views are appreciated too!
I don't think you should expect APJ to promote your work.You have to do that yourself.Even though you may be buried alphabeticaly you still have a link to use.I too think the forums lack participation.I think the "Black Book" offers excellent resources for one to offer their work and attract attention to one's skills.Once again you have to use it.I think the owners of this site have done an excellent job.There is a maintenance problem but I don't think they [the owners] are getting rich off this site either.The biggest problem I have is with the RANK IT! page.A lot of people rank photos without comment.I find that rude.After a bit of complaining I got feedback that helped me quite a bit.Is APJ worth the $20 fee? I think so.Looking at others' photos here I've become a better photographer.I haven't noticed any pop up ads and as far as I know haven't received any spam that I can associate here.
GOOD LUCK
mike buck
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:16 am Post subject: Is Americanphotojournalist.com worth even $20
I read about AmericanPhotojournalist in PopPhoto back around June. I didn't join at that time, because I was in the middle of purchasing a house and moving etc...
As I've recently left a staff position to go full-time freelance, I've been checking out a number of portfolio and online community sites, among them Americanphotojournalist.
I am asking this in sincerity, because I think the concept behind this site is a good one, I am just uncertain as to the execution and participation.
The forum participation is completely lacking. There was a question asked about what gear does it take to be a photojournalist, and there has been only one response in the past week (at the least.) Sure, for many of us, this is a basic question, but I think there could have been some participation; both in terms of gear, and also in terms of personality and emotional characteristics (not to mention a good selection of CDs in your car stereo for all the time spent sitting in traffic en route to photo assignments...) Many other forum topics have no or very few replies, which is a disappointment to see when considering joining an 'online community' especially one where there is a membership fee.
About that membership fee...I know $20 is not a lot of money, but what does that get me? 12 photos buried in an alphabetical list, unless I upload a different photo every day to bump myself up to one of the 3 spots on the front page.
Are members getting work from AmericanPhotojournalist? I've asked a few members, and they haven't seen an increase or a referal from here...This may not be the norm, but again, with my name buried way down an alphabetical list, it seems like it's a needle in a haystack sort of thing...
I know there's that "Black Book" concept, but how is that much different than owning a copy of the current Photographer's market or calling a would-be client photo editor directly?
I've seen Photo Story of the Week entries without any feedback whatsoever...Another disappointment. And there's not even a current Photo story of the week right now? Ouch!
Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps it is just a slow time here on the site; but if I don't see otherwise in the next few weeks, I doubt I'll be joining up as a 'paid member.'
Although I agree that APJ should not be expected to "actively" promote the work of pro photographers, it should certainly be one of several channels through which working photographers can make potential buyers aware of their experience, style, and approach. The categories list, on the member profile page, allows us to select if we are a freelance photographer, a wire service photographer, a photo editor etc. I'd like to see some changes to this list but my original interest was aroused when I saw a few photo editors submit their details. I had already worked with Mish Coffey at Getty Images (sadly it looks like she did not renew her membership this year) and I have made contact with other photo editors in the US and Eastern Europe, all with a view to generating more work. Of course I directed them to my own web sites but an initial view of a selection of my work on APJ is useful to them as their time is usually very short and the number of submissions they receive is very high. I'd like to see APJ marketed not only more carefully to a professional membership but also more effectively to photo buyers. This could make it a valuable resource for which $20 might turn out to be too low for an annual fee.
There are many associations and alliances and clubs etc out there, all apparently catering for pro photographers. I have seen little benefit from membership of any of them and have achieved far more success in selling my work by spending the time to network and market directly to photo buyers. I'd much rather spend the time shooting but I have bills to pay and cats to feed so relying on any single source to market my work is not an option. APJ is one of many channels through which I promote my work - it is also interesting to read the views of others, to offer advice where it is requested, and to share opportunities and news on important events (Al Crespo, for example, during the 2003 FTAA protests in Miami).
As Mike Buck suggested, posting your pics and some contact info on APJ is likely to gain you nothing unless you use it. However, the black book entries are a "nice to have" but mostly ineffective. Can you really see a photo buyer going to the trouble of searching the black book directory on an obscure photojournalism site for the purpose of finding a new photographer for their latest assignment? With the number of self-promotional pieces, email campaigns etc that photographers execute every year, most photo buyers have little need to go looking for talent - it turns up in their mailbox or inbox every day. So why add to the black book? Because others have done so and none of us like to feel left out, do we? :-)
But, returning to my earlier point - I feel strongly that APJ will only start to see genuine credibility when it can demonstrate that it helps working photographers get good, paying work. Aside from that, it is nothing more than a glorified discussion forum with not much activity in that area either. Viewing a small selection of work from other photogs is also worthwhile but the site owners really need to do something about those who post their holiday or baby pics...
Yes, once again, I will continue to pay my $20/year in the hope that the site owners will take notice of what is being said, and commit to evolving the site in the direction stated. I'd be happy to pay more if the owners commit to certain improvements over whatever period of time. I'm keeping the faith for another year - beyond that, the $20 is being redirected back to mailing promotional postcards...
I didn't mean that having a listing in "THE BLACK BOOK" would have people flooding your e-box to solicit you.I meant it presents an opportunity to contact others promoting yourself.For instance,there is someone listed as Ahikam,a photojournalist in Israel.He lists his e-mail address,snail address,and phone#.If I thought I might have a photo he might want to use all of the information to contact him is available.There are a lot of magazine and photo editors listed as well.WHO knows,"THE BLACK BOOK" could put Reuters and AP out of business <grin>.
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GOOD LUCK
mike buck
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As Mike Buck suggested, posting your pics and some contact info on APJ is likely to gain you nothing unless you use it. However, the black book entries are a "nice to have" but mostly ineffective. Can you really see a photo buyer going to the trouble of searching the black book directory on an obscure photojournalism site for the purpose of finding a new photographer for their latest assignment? With the number of self-promotional pieces, email campaigns etc that photographers execute every year, most photo buyers have little need to go looking for talent - it turns up in their mailbox or inbox every day. So why add to the black book? Because others have done so and none of us like to feel left out, do we?
Mike Fox
Think First Media
International Photojournalism
From what I've seen here in the past month, I won't be joining...
Sad, I thought this site had a lot of potential, but I'm very disappointed.
I would have thought that someone from the site might adress some of the things I asked about, but that was not the case.
Instead, I got an autogenerated email reminding me to send in $20 to stay a part of this group...I'll join sportsshooter instead.
I have seen so much unprofessionalism on the part of so-called 'journalists' that it disturbs me to think that these are representatives of the same business I am in...
I'm sure someone will mock up a 'Red Meat' comic about this. I really don't care.
Thanks anyway AmericanPhotojournalist, but no thanks.
Stealing words without permission...Not too different from stealing a photo without permission...Heyzues, that's very dishonorable for someone purporting to be a journalist.
Why not give your real name? Because you might screw up your reputation? Then you shouldn't be behaving like you are.
if you dont know by now its the k- McA
ya know, hopefully this kinda stuff will make the apj staff realize that forum posting should be restricted to members. ie sportsshooter/PDN.
I for one will not be renewing. I feel that this site has been taken over by people who are far from being photojournalists let alone photographers.
This site could have been a wonderful educational tool where a discourse on photojournalism could have taken place. Instead we see pictures of cats, dogs, frogs, anything military related and whatever else that a lack of an imagination can produce.
Sure, some of the photos are cute - but is it really photojournalism? This is not to take away from the real work that has been showcased here, but as we can all see � it is becoming harder to find.
When I check the site I typically see the same person who updates everyday - though you will never see any new images from Slovakia. She must not have anything better to do than watch her numbers increase by 1 or 2 each day.
The photo story of the week is another example of this site losing favour amongst many photojournalists; there should be tons of photojournalists lining up to submit essays - but there isn�t.
There has been a discussion concerning the sportsshooter web site - which I am a member - and how you must become a member. I think that if this site had set some standards it would not have the obvious problems that it has now. Is sportsshooter perfect - not at all. But they are working on improving it everyday and unlike other sites, they will not just let anyone in who can afford to pay dues.
Anyhow, thanks to the site administrators for plugging my work early on � it was truly appreciated.
To play Devil's Advocate, you guys should remember that hosting, bandwidth, etc..., cost a great deal of money above the time to develop a site and host 500 portfolios. If that translates into $10,000, then you've probably covered your development, hosting-related costs for managing a dedicated server, equipment/software costs and maybe your time to put the whole thing together and get it posted.
I think the concerns above are valid, but I think people vastly underestimate how much of a time-consuming and expensive task that these things can be.
It's not 1-2-3 and it's up.
If you look at SportsShooter, they're obviously exploiting revenue streams such as affiliate/associate income, etc...
Good point, Guest. I host various web sites and the costs can be high, not only for infrastructure but also for upkeep. However, I also feel strongly that by more careful market segmentation, focusing on delivering benefits to professional photojournalists, that fees could be increased. I would be happy to pay more if I got more from the system. Perhaps a tiered membership would be appropriate with more functionality available for validated professionals at a higher annual cost, and less functionality for entry level members, students etc. Sure, Sportsshooter may well offset additional costs with affiliations etc. My response is, why doesn't APJ do the same? Did you know you can buy a Canon 1DS from Calumet Photo via Amazon.Com (avoiding sales tax via the internet) and that APJ could get the commission from that sale by spending approx 10 minutes setting up an Amazon.Com affiliation? I'd be happy to channel my purchases through a single point, provided pricing was comparable to my usual sources. Same applies to the extensive travel arrangements I make. Expedia offers affiliate status. It's not lack of opportunity that may be restricting APJ revenue for more sophisticated site development.
This has been an interesting morning. I've been preparing a project to send to my agency and took a break to catch up on this forum. I'm a pro shooter and have been for many years, here and in Europe. I am also a new member and will consider very carefully whether or not to sign up full time in 4 weeks. Right now I think I'll decline. It's only 20 bucks, but that's the same as an Epson Cartridge and one cartridge prints a lot of promo pieces. I need to count my pennies, having a family and all.
I think APJ could facilitate students and new photographers but should lable them accordingly. Hardened pro's like myself need a lot more from a site like this. Links to the big competitions is one crucial need. We snappers often need reminders about such things. Notifications about pro workshops would also be handy. Workshops on finance and tax and mentoring etc..
It would be terrific if APJ could act like a conduit to the various services, competitions, picture and assignment requests and the like that pro's require on a daily basis. It might also be a good idea to require a press pass of some sort as proof of a photojournalists standing. But one woould have thought that the quality of the images alone would be enough. Afterall, digital technology has leveled the playing field to a certain extent, in that amateurs can now shoot as much as they like and therefore have more to edit from. Was that not what seperated pros in the first place, the fact that we could shoot more as clients paid for film and therefore could make a better selection?
The entire operation here at APJ could, and perhaps should, be transformed into a top-notch facility for top-notch photographers and up-and-comers. The 'folios are where it's at. Each image in every folio needs to stand alone as a memorable shot. That's the only way editors and art buyers and directors and fellow photojournalists will stick around.
Check out PDN Online's photoserve as an example. It's expensive and sleek but is not the best place for photojournalism. Rather it's great for advertising and the like. Again, this presents an oportunity for APJ. LET'S DO IT! COME ON!
So far I've had three top notch job inquiries from companies who searched this site looking for a photographer in their area and came upon my work. I'd say it's excellent value.
I agree with the comment about spliting up the professionals and the and students.
I for one am a student and have been trying to get the most out of this site. I've posted on the forum about captions (which got zero responses), called everyone in my area who is within driving distance, submitted my first photo story (which hasn't been posted but I hope that it will be because I need critcisms to get better)
For a student the price is affordable and some of the connections are great, but the lack of feedback hurts when you are starting out and no one is there to help you.
I've watched this post for a while now I thought it was interesting.
I'm always amazed by people that think a website, any website will do wonders for them. I guess that's the norm in this want it now, get it now, drive through culture.
I joined hoping this site might develop into a quality, professional site for photojournalists so I'll hold my opinion for about 18 months or so.
Everyone has their view on what they would want in their "perfect" site. I'm a member of several professional organizations and sites and I can find fault in all of them.
As far as the NPPA it has actually grown in membership by numbers this year (fiscal) over last year. Yes the NPPA is going through changes but change does not happen overnight in an organization that large. And it is still the major voice in news (and all that it implies) and the leader in educational venues.
I'm also a SportsShooter member and while I enjoy that site I feel the requirements to join have become to lax. I also think allot of the posts are too amateurish and have posted to that end. I'm talking about the ridiculous posts akin to the type you would see on Fred Miranda, Rob Galbraith, Digital Camera Reviews, etc.
AmericanPhotojournalist has the potential to become a good web presence...I'll have to wait and see.
Just my little two pennies... having these 13 photos on here has brought a lot of business my way. The site has paid for itself more than 20 times over. I agree with the lack of community interaction. I'm not sure if this has come into play but the people who started this community are military shooters and may be busy elsewhere. Just a shot in the dark. In closing, I will say, if you're wondering if the $20/year are worth it, it is, especially if you are a freelancer (stringer).
WOW. That took forever to read through. And if anyone makes it down to this one then I dont want to keep you long. Just one thing to say. I have been a member since 03 and every year i get four to five jobs from this site that well and above pay my membership. Europe, and the Americas have contacted me through this site. That being said I agree with mulitiple threads that have already been hashed. I just wanted to add that one thing.
i just joined and this is a great intro to realities of this site.
i want to become a photojournalist. i have lil photography experience(serious exp.), however I travel alot and can write well when i am stoked on something.
i am here to learn how to begin as a P.J., how competitve the field is, and what it takes to join the competition.
i have one month to find out
